Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

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cobra2411
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by cobra2411 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:42 pm

And one last thought on the matter. I have to look up the rules, but I can record the trial at the MDJ level. A friend of mine did, he said the court wants advanced notice. I'm going to pull the oath of the inspector and I'm going to try and impeach him on the stand by asking him to recite Article 1, section 1 of the constitution. If he can't do that I'm going to ask him to summarize it. If he can't do that I'm going to move to impeach.

Then in case I have to appeal I can enter that into the record. Assuming he doesn't have an oath recorded I'll get him on failure to have an oath and he's incompetent as he doesn't even know what he's supposed to be protecting.

Now even though I want to make him look like a buffoon on the stand, I'm going to keep going forward with trying to get the judge to interpret the ordinance as a nuisance in fact. I don't want to win on a technicality.
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notmartha
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by notmartha » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:25 am

cobra2411 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:42 pm
I'm going to pull the oath of the inspector and I'm going to try and impeach him on the stand by asking him to recite Article 1, section 1 of the constitution. If he can't do that I'm going to ask him to summarize it. If he can't do that I'm going to move to impeach.
Hopefully Honey Brook doesn't search "Honey Brook, unlicensed vehicle" (although township solicitors are known to keep on top of what's posted online) and get to cram for the test pre-trial. Hopefully you have a plan B that you don't post about. ;)
cobra2411
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by cobra2411 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:18 am

Good point, but I'd be shocked if they did. I would think they would keep it to case law. I've seen a few of the solicitors in court and they're usually not the top-dog, hot shots. But they do like their billing so sometimes they'll put up the good fight just to rack up the billing...
cobra2411
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by cobra2411 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:05 pm

Well color me surprised. The judge wouldn't even let me speak... The township called their witness, went through a bunch of questions, made their case and when I got a chance to cross the judge shut me down stating that "this isn't the place for that, the purpose of this trial is to set the fine..."

In other words I was guilty as soon as I was charged.

A couple interesting things, I got to see the "evidence" against me - most of which were pictures that could only be taken while standing on the rear of my property. The codes guy testified that he never went farther than the driveway and of course I wasn't able to question him on that. So someone trespassed to get the pictures... Further he testified that he inspected the property again on the 20th and drove down the driveway with permission of the neighbors who initiated the complaint - it's a shared drive. The problem is they sold and no longer had any rights to give him permission to enter the property. The pictures he took from the drive show only registered vehicles...

Once outside they said if I renewed the registrations they would consider the matter closed. Didn't have to move them, didn't have to make them run, didn't have to do anything but re-register them.

I expected as much from the local court. The county courts are less political in that sense, so I'm hoping for better luck there. Although they're certainly not immune... There's two vehicles I'm going to convert to antique, one that I'm going to re-register and one I'm going to sell then I'll "be in compliance" with the township and I'm going to start an email dialog with the goal of them saying that I'm in compliance... In other words the township is requiring something the department of transportation doesn't even require - registration on private property.

I also found out what happened the last time. Apparently I cleaned up the property and brought it into compliance. My memory isn't what it used to be, but if the codes guy swore under oath that must have been what happened... :) He also said that it looked like multiple cars/trucks had been removed from the property since July, supporting what I've been saying that it's a hobby and stuff comes and goes. It's an exaggeration on his part as only one left, but again, who am I to challenge... ;)

He said on the stand that if the vehicles were moved inside they wouldn't be an issue and when I pinned him down on the ordinance being aesthetic the township jumped in and said "it's also to protect the health and safety of the community" which he echoed. I stated that they hadn't shown any proof and it was all just circumstantial, supposition and hearsay and the township responded that they didn't have to show proof and that's when the judge shut me down.

$150 fine plus costs. And a *Nudge-nudge-wink-wink* promise afterwards that if I tag the vehicles they won't ever come around again...
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notmartha
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by notmartha » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:26 am

That's their typical MO...if they don't like the game they throw the board. There is no law...only corporate CEO's (called judges) fulfilling their responsibility of showing a profit for the corporations (called courts). Check it out for yourself on Dun and Bradstreet if you don't believe me.

Thanks for the update.
cobra2411
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by cobra2411 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:14 am

I just found out from the county courthouse that the citation has been withdrawn. When I asked why I was told that the township claimed the property was brought into compliance. Nothing really has changed, one vehicle left, another came so no net change...

I did register two vehicles antique, but that's it. The plates were never put on so unless they have vin numbers and queried pendot they have no idea that I registered them.

I had two attorneys look at what I wrote and both said they were impressed, but not being an attorney I may simply be ignored.

Not sure what to think. A friend thinks that they knew they were on ify ground and they decided not to spend the money. Outside the MDJ court I let them know I intended to appeal and the attorney for the township said "That's up to you if you want to spend the money." I told her I was pro-se and it was a $50 filing fee to appeal...

So whatever happened I'll take it as a win...
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notmartha
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Re: Unlicensed vehicle issue - PA

Post by notmartha » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:23 pm

Good for you. They'll go after easier prey.
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