What is government Property

Land, personal possessions, and self. Not necessarily in that order.
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Cymulacra
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What is government Property

Post by Cymulacra »

I recently bought a 2000 EV Global Motors PE electric bike from Craigslist at a scrap price, where PE stands for Police Edition. It has been out of production since that year. Is this government property that I am disallowed from selling? It is a working museum piece and should fetch north of $1500, based on its lesser twin from which the design was adapted. All these bikes, ca. 2000 are considered antique, so maybe there is some legal guidance along that line too. I know this is a complicated legal issue, so any directions will help.
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notmartha
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Re: What is government Property

Post by notmartha »

To my knowledge, pedalcycles with electric assist are considered bicycles and do not require titling or registration. So without titles clouding the issue, the ownership issue is easy.

It doesn't matter who previous owner was, whether "government" or not. If you meet the tenets of ownership (purchase, possession, improvement) and nobody contests that ownership, your property rights include the right to sell. If someone else claims ownership, they must prove it, by meeting the same tenets of ownership.
Cymulacra
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:21 pm

Re: What is government Property

Post by Cymulacra »

Thank you for the response - you mention every issue I am worried about.
I bought it from Craigslist - cash / no receipt.
Morissette (1952) bothers me here b/c of the generality of the SCOTUS definitions of criminal conversion of gov't property, so I wonder if the serial number on the bike prevents forfeiture unless the claimant can show a corresponding invoice? The state gets to do anything it wants to those who don't have the money to "prove" they are innocent, and I don't wanna hire an attorney to "prove" that serial numbered invoicing is a required tenet, per your ownership definition. I guess I have apprehension as to the 2 pronged threat of civil claims and criminal forfeiture (civil asset forfeiture.) Thanks for any followup.
Last edited by Cymulacra on Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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notmartha
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Re: What is government Property

Post by notmartha »

Cymulacra wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:52 pm The state gets to do anything it wants to
This pretty much sums it up... whether they (STATE) have an interest or not...

I really just think you are borrowing troubles, as nobody else is or likely will claim this bike, unless of course it actually is stolen.

If you have no receipt, a simple affidavit will do.

I, John Smith, a man of majority age and sound mind, do hereby affirm as “I” or “my” that the following statements are true:

On _______________(date) I purchased a 2000 EV Global Motors PE electric bike, serial number ______________ from an unknown advertiser on Craigslist in the town of ______________for the amount of _______________.

I then took possession of and made improvements to said bike.

I, John Smith, do herein affirm on this _____ day of ____________________, A.D. 2021 that to the best of my knowledge, the preceding matters of fact are true and correct.

_____________________________
Signature of Affiant

(sign, date, notarize)

This would be your "evidence" of purchase, which would likely trump anybody else's "evidence."

"Forfeiture" whether civil (in rem) or criminal (in personam), is not dependent on ownership. They will do what they want to do, by creating fictions at law, whether you are lawful owner or not.

I posted about forfeiture here:
viewtopic.php?p=3975#p3975

BTW, why are you so sure it is government property? Is it marked as such? If it is, and you want to be absolutely sure it is not stolen, check the news local to that police department to see if there were any reports of it being stolen. Or just call the pd and say you are interested in buying a bike off craigslist, and want to check to make sure it is not stolen. If it is stolen, you really don't want any parts of it, no matter how great a deal you got.

As far as MORISSETTE v. UNITED STATES, Morissette, knowingly and with intent, took what was not his and sold it. This is criminal no matter who the owner was.
Cymulacra
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Re: What is government Property

Post by Cymulacra »

That was a snazzy reply!!! Thanks for the help! I should have videoed my picking it up from the Craigslist owner's "toy box" as he called it. I had no idea these these sell for $1500 and even much more. That's felony grade, so I worry about dishonest cops, since they need no proof (and Morissette took scrap metal from an unmarked open area - a derelict field - intent was assessed from the olive drab trademarking of the scrap and his own prior military service.) Maybe the Cl seller wouldn't find it a bother to help me out on this. I'd hate to have to beg a judge to believe my my word or my screenshot of the CL ad is legit just to avoid thousand$ in lawyer rescue. I'm just not impressive as a "Mr. Smith."
Last edited by Cymulacra on Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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