SHOW ID ON DEMAND ? I DON'T THINK SO

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PASSION FOR POWER
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Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:29 am

SHOW ID ON DEMAND ? I DON'T THINK SO

Post by PASSION FOR POWER » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:54 am

Hello Everyone,
I'm riding along with a friend, in a work van and trailer, hauling
> tree branches to the dump.
> I'm a passenger. My friend gets pulled over for not having a "tarp"
> over the load of tree
> branches. No problem. We get out, put a tarp over the trailer while
> he is running my friends license. He also asks for my license. I
> said "Why, I wasn't driving." He said, "I have to ask."
> I reluctantly gave it to him. He ran them and gave them both back, and
> left. No ticket.
> I should have exercised my Constitutional rights and refused, however,
> my friend would have come "unglued" with fear and we probably would
> not have made it to the dump before it closed.
> My question is: If they can ask anyone they stop for ID, what's to
> stop them from standing outside the grocery store and "carding" people
> at random ?
> There was a case of a gentleman being slightly detained for 23 minutes
> in Tampa, Fl. and he sued and was awarded $25,000.
> Do people have to show ID if they are not doing anything detrimental?
> Quite honestly, I'm tired of the "gestapo" crap. I had to send in my
> fingerprints to the state to get my insurance license. No problem, I
> got my license, but where do these "neo-nazi" intimidation tactics end ?

I've played in my rock band all over the world, and I've experienced a few other cultures.
It's getting out of control psychotic. I'm not sure that a Constitution or any laws will protect us much longer.

Since there is no real SAFE place away from the "police state" mentality, I am open to suggestions.
>
> Thank you,
PASSION FOR POWER
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editor
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Re: SHOW ID ON DEMAND ? I DON'T THINK SO

Post by editor » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:41 am

Police in most places in the U.S. are given the authority to "stop and question" any person if they have a reasonable suspicion that person has committed a crime, is in the process of committing a crime, or imminently intends to commit a crime. In such a situation, the person stopped is required only to give his "name and address."

If driving a motor vehicle, the person may be required to show his license.

A man in this position might reasonably ask the policeman, "Do you have a reaonable suspicion that I have committed or am committing a crime?", and "Do you have a reaonable suspicion that I was about to commit a crime?" If the policeman answers "No," then simply ask, "Am I free to leave?", and "Am I being detained?"

The policeman will likely repeat and rephrase his questions, over and over, in an attempt to get you to voluntarily give him information. This may take time. You are within your rights to keep asking him your same questions, over and over too.

If he answers "Yes," ask him "What is the basis of your reasonable suspicion? Why did you stop and question me?"

The policeman must walk a fine line here. I watched a Youtube video just last week, in which a man openly carrying a handgun was being harrassed by police. The cop admitted the only reason he stopped the man was because he was carrying a gun. The man quoted a State Supreme Court ruling (sorry I don't have the cite) which says openly carrying a firearm in and of itself is not sufficient reason for a stop and question. The man then asked if he was free to go. Wisely, the cop let him go.

If we don't use our rights we will lose them. If it requires time and trouble on our part, then that is the price of freedom.

Years ago a similar thing happened to me. It was a Friday evening, and I was supposed to meet my wife at a local nightclub. I hadn't seen her for a week, as I had spent the entire week at a Right Way L.A.W. seminar in Ohio, learning how to sue cops and judges for civil rights violations.

I stopped on the way and grabbed two single slices of pizza; ate one on the way; parked and ate the second while sitting in my car. I didn't sit there for more than ten minutes. When I got out of the car and walked toward the front door, a police cruiser was just pulling into the parking lot. They saw me getting out of the parked car, and quickly drove over and pulled up next to me. The cop who was driving rolled down the window and demanded my ID.

The cop who was obviously in charge was in his thirties, and the other looked like he was fresh out of the academy. So he was training this young cop on how to handle people. He couldn't have singled out a worse man, or a worse time, with everything still fresh in my mind from the seminar.

I asked him about first about exigent circumstances. I asked him if I matched the description of anyone on his hotsheet; and about reasonable suspicion. Things escalated quickly. He and his partner were outside the car, loudly and forcefully demanding my ID. I didn't refuse to give it to them, I just kept asking questions, which they didn't answer.

Suddenly, without warning, the older cop grabbed me and slammed me facedown onto the trunk of the nearest parked car. He took my wallet from my back pocket, handed it to his partner, and handcuffed my hands behind my back. He then allowed me to stand up, and told his partner to watch me while he ran my license.

The young cop stood there with his hand on his holstered gun, looking nervous while we waited for his partner.

After about ten minutes, the older cop came out of the cruiser with a puzzled look on his face. He said, "You didn't have any wants or warrants, why didn't you just give me your ID?" I said, "This is America, and I have rights. Why did you assault me?" He said, "I didn't assault you. The law says you have to give me your ID if I ask for it." I said, "We'll find out, won't we?"

I asked if I was free to leave. He took the cuffs off and returned my wallet. I demanded the names and badge numbers of him and his partner, which he gave me. The cops left.

The first thing I did was talk to the crowd that had gathered around me. I found two intelligent looking men who agreed to sign an affidavit. They went inside with me. I got paper and pen from the bartender, and wrote down in affidavit form everything that had happened as I remembered it. You have to do this right away while it's still fresh. The camera-phones today are awesome for this. Then I signed it, and the two guys signed statements underneath that they agreed with everything I'd said above.

On Monday, I took the affidavit to the County Clerk, filed it, and got a stamped copy. Then I wrote a letter to the police chief, and enclosed a copy of the affidavit with the Clerk's filestamp. In the letter, I asked him if the officer had followed City policy.

See, here I was setting the City up for a multi-million dollar civil rights suit. Four days later I received a letter from the police chief, notifying me that the older of the two officers, the one in charge, had been fired and no longer worked for the City.

The Chief knew I had them dead to rights, and the only thing he could do to save the City was immediately fire the cop. This left it open for me to sue the cop in his individual capacity, but I didn't do it. I figured the cop, and the trainee, had learned from his mistake.

All of this took quite a bit of my time. While the young cop stood there nervous, with his hand on his gun, I was even in a bit of potential danger. Was it worth it? To me it was.

My best suggestion: Study. Know your rights, and use them. Take the time to educate others.

Thanks, Imminent, and God bless.
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Editor
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scott
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Re: SHOW ID ON DEMAND ? I DON'T THINK SO

Post by scott » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:40 am

passion for power

Honestly there is nothing to stop humbugs (men who think they know what’s better for you than you do) from asking you for I.D. or anything else for that matter. It’s not against the law to ask people questions, nor should it be.
If you want to exercise your constitutional ‘rights’ a good basic place to start would be to go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nQ_mFJV4I. They make some very good points.
Cops ‘always’ see ‘persons’ as legal fictions and they think if you have I.D. they have a right to see it.
Sometimes it's simply best not to have any I.D..
Where does the “neo-nazi" intimidation tactics end ?” It only ends when you dig in your heels, know who you are and do not ‘ consent’ to the intimidation.
You will have to decide where you are going to draw your lines as far as what the ‘state’ demands of you. And I can guarantee you they are going to want more and more.
As far as a “Safe place” goes, our only true safety is in learning to “stand” in Yahweh’s Kingdom and His truth. “the truth shall set you free”.

Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
Psalms 119:117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe: and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually.

I have learned the further you are out of there system and don’t talk like a legal ‘person’ the less they know what to do with you.

I have a feeling as this forum grows you are going to find a lot of answers to your questions.

scott
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Re: SHOW ID ON DEMAND ? I DON'T THINK SO

Post by Y.O.G. » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:46 pm

by scott » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:40 pm
passion for power

Honestly there is nothing to stop humbugs (men who think they know what’s better for you than you do) from asking you for I.D. or anything else for that matter. It’s not against the law to ask people questions, nor should it be.
If you want to exercise your constitutional ‘rights’ a good basic place to start would be to go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nQ_mFJV4I. They make some very good points.
Cops ‘always’ see ‘persons’ as legal fictions and they think if you have I.D. they have a right to see it.
Sometimes it's simply best not to have any I.D..
Where does the “neo-nazi" intimidation tactics end ?” It only ends when you dig in your heels, know who you are and do not ‘ consent’ to the intimidation.
You will have to decide where you are going to draw your lines as far as what the ‘state’ demands of you. And I can guarantee you they are going to want more and more.
As far as a “Safe place” goes, our only true safety is in learning to “stand” in Yahweh’s Kingdom and His truth. “the truth shall set you free”.

Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
Psalms 119:117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe: and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually.

I have learned the further you are out of there system and don’t talk like a legal ‘person’ the less they know what to do with you.

I have a feeling as this forum grows you are going to find a lot of answers to your questions.

scott
A Lawful Christian

Praise Yahweh!
Yahweh's Occupational Government

2nd Chronicles 7:14
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 11:56 am

Re: SHOW ID ON DEMAND ? I DON'T THINK SO

Post by Max » Mon May 20, 2013 11:41 pm

If you consent i.e. fingerprinting etc. THEY "GOT-CHA!" You consented. You do not have to consent. If they threaten to not give your license go after them through lawful means. If they ask for, or demand your identification, ask them why? Do you have a warrant or probable cause that I did anything unlawful, officer? I respect that the officer let you and your friend go concerning the tarp issue. The officer wisely recognized that the missing tarp had not caused anyone injury, therefore, he had no lawful jurisdiction to impose a fine. Kudos to the peace officer on that call! As for him to ask for you I.D. He can ask. Yep! But, he DID NOT stop YOU! You were a passenger. You broke no laws. There was no reasonable doubt that you had broken any laws. No! That is the answer. You do not need to see my identification, for cause. I did nothing wrong; I was not driving. (Good answer, sir) Max
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